Adrian Zimmermann 0:00
So I have to have to say to read that, would you? Yeah. Okay. Hi, my name is Adrian Zimmermann. And this is application, the TYPO3 community podcast, sharing your stories, your projects, and the difference you make.
Jeffrey A. McGuire 0:16
Welcome to Application, the TYPO3 Community Podcast.
Adrian Zimmermann 0:24
And listen to this week's podcast to find out how snowboarding and open source tastes so sweet together.
Jeffrey A. McGuire 0:32
One Welcome to application the TYPO3 community podcast. I'm Jeffrey A.. McGuire, you can call me jam. And this is where we celebrate the TYPO3 community sharing your stories talking about your projects, and the difference you make in around and with TYPO3 CMS. On this episode of application, that TYPO3 community podcast I got to talk with, under the similar man from Switzerland, who's been around in the TYPO3 community for more than 20 years, and we got a great chance to reminisce about some of the good old days, the origins of the TYPO3 board event and somehow how snowboarding ties back to every single other aspect of TYPO3 rather than we talked about a lot of the people who've been around since then the projects, the ideas, the concepts that come from these long friendships and and activities together around technology. So listen in for some ideas about how open source fits in with business, how things have gone right and wrong there over the years, inter project cooperations how we can be better open source friends and citizens together. And a lot more. I hope you enjoy listening to this as much as I did. Early 2021, it's mid January, we are talking on a little thing that I like to call application that TYPO3 community podcast ads again, Timmerman, how long have you been doing TYPO3?
Adrian Zimmermann 2:26
Exactly? 20 years, something around this 20 years?
Jeffrey A. McGuire 2:31
So you were right from the beginning? Right from the beginning, beginning beginning? Yeah, almost. What was the first version that you that you use? Was there? Or do you have? Do you have a first memory?
Adrian Zimmermann 2:42
My first memory, of course, was shortly after we started digging into TYPO3, when that call from from Kasper com came to go snowboarding, right. That was the kickoff. So to say we started before that. But then he called that in the into the community. Let's go snowboarding because of I think it was a an advertisement or something that mentioned that web designers should be snowboarders as well. And that was in Denmark somewhere. And Kasper took that for literally. Then he set up the first snowboard tour in Pakistan. 2002. Right. So
Jeffrey A. McGuire 3:25
this is a great TYPO3 community tradition. I think it also speaks to TYPO3's, Central European origins, but the idea of a community conference organized around skiing is fantastic. I really like it. I haven't been on one yet. So have you been on all of them?
Adrian Zimmermann 3:41
Not quite all, I think I missed like three or four. This was in the last few years when I had to go ahead to go where I could go with my family to the to the mountains, but recently I started again and I will try to go there.
Jeffrey A. McGuire 3:57
Speaking of skiing, I made I think what is a very grown up decision for me, I decided to not do as many exercises that stress my knees so that I can ski a few years longer.
Adrian Zimmermann 4:11
Okay, so you kind of do accounting and which which allows you.
Jeffrey A. McGuire 4:17
... Because I hate to admit it but things things have started to hurt sometimes that didn't use to hurt and I want to have ...
Adrian Zimmermann 4:24
I have exac ly the same the same priority or for me with snowboarding or i he if people ask me, What is the difference between 20 ye rs ago and now do you feel olde ? What can you do? and w at not snowboarding is a solute priority. I have to do th s some more 20 years and I w ll put everything alo
Jeffrey A. McGuire 4:46
an ice adenium Thema man, why don't you introduce yourself, tell us who you are and what you do.
Adrian Zimmermann 4:52
I'm Adrian like as I said, 20 years no somehow connected with TYPO3. started with my friend Domini browner and Mark Asana with m two friends, I started snowflak Productions 1999 it started an again, that's what suits th whole story. It started as snowboard portal. It starte with border.ch, which was hobby we did. We, the three o us, we did a snowboard porta where we already had a databas of all Swiss resorts with lik snow, snow, height, snow, fall last snowfall, how many hal pipes all the stuff you need fo snow report. We fetched alread from a database from Switzerlan tourism, we could do tha because Dominic worked ther before and had some connections Ah, this portal was ver successful. We had like 60 sessions a day back there, 9099 which is not not bad. And we ha also chats and forums and thing going on. And then we had th idea to sell banners, banne ads, you know, the 90s, we sel banners. And we wrote a lette to all of the six ski resort 150 ski resorts and tell them i you want to keep your resorts o our portal, you have to pay lik 200 francs for a season. And t do that we we did the compan snowflake production. So th company wrote that letter to al those resorts. That was when w founded snowflake productions It started like this, and n resort at all paid the fee, ut
Jeffrey A. McGuire 6:38
The Internet was just a passing fad, right? Y
Adrian Zimmermann 6:40
The internet was dying! ;-) But we had the company and then we started, in 1999 we started and today we are here.
Jeffrey A. McGuire 6:49
And what sort of projects does snowflake do now?
Adrian Zimmermann 6:52
We do do a lot of things for government. That's the big ones. We have like, in Germany, you have the lender, we have the continents, we do like controls website. We do saho shulin, universities, stuff like that. So that's what we do with tenders. We go for tenders into this, this government stuff. And then we also do economy stuff, normal websites, corporate websites.
Jeffrey A. McGuire 7:17
It's a huge broad area, which we also want to keep. If you could start over now, would you take a different path in learning TYPO3? Or if you were looking for a technology now do you think that you would gravitate towards TYPO3?
Adrian Zimmermann 7:32
Yeah, definitely. We will do it the same way. It was it was definitely the right decision.
Jeffrey A. McGuire 7:39
What was your background? It sounds like your choice. Back 20 years ago, your choice was a very technical one. And you looked at the code and you decided that that you had some affinity to that what what is your background?
Adrian Zimmermann 7:49
I'm a educated programmer. I did the programmer practical first after high school. For years, I worked as a programmer, I did some banking software. I worked on HP systems with that with a powerhouse language did some applications then I studied VHF symptomatic. Ah, so science of it. I don't know.
Jeffrey A. McGuire 8:14
Computer Science with a focus on business, right?
Adrian Zimmermann 8:17
Yeah, exactly. And that was when I finished 98. So and then I was, of course really eager to go to go for something. And then one year later, we started with, with snowflake. First I wanted to focus also, we were like only six people in that in an agency where we did the applications for banks and stuff. And there I wanted to open a new branch internet, let's do internet stuff. But the CEO there wasn't interesting. Was it was not interested at all our internet. It's not interesting. So I did that call with Dominic and said, let's let's try it. Let's try it. I want to go into that direction. Anyway, it was a good decision. And also Dominic came from the technical background. So we really were like the technicians and the the coders.
Jeffrey A. McGuire 9:08
That was the really the dawn of the open source era as well outside of academic circles. Did you know that you wanted to work with an open source technology?
Adrian Zimmermann 9:16
Yeah, when we had to to evaluate a CMS for Greenpeace, because we worked for Greenpeace. That time we had Marcos, the other partner was web master of Greenpeace. So we could take that mandate into into snowflake. And then there was in the year 2000. There was that question about the CMS. They had to they had to have a new one or a CMS at all, because we did it all with Dreamweaver, of course at that time. Right. Right. So they were emulating a CMS and they were also asking us and then we we first took a look at what is what is it? What is out there. The decision for open source came really fast because of course NGOs like Greenpeace or terrorism, which we did. One year later, of course, they were related to open source, they they couldn't pay lots of license fees. And we grew up with with those NGOs. We know a lot of people working NGO. So that was for us, it was clear that we go the open source.
Jeffrey A. McGuire 10:16
Open Source in general is really grew up doing politics, activism and entertainment, right. And to this day, there's a ton of NGOs and charities who focus on using open source software. And a lot of practitioners whose entire practices are around building good donation flows and helping helping activism in general. And I just think it's a great crossover as well. And open source has attracted so many idealists along the way, plus the you know, the next open source argument you can use is, of course, any money you have to spend with us, we're going to give you features for it, we're going to give you functionality, we're going to give you value, when we work for you. So the other interesting thing that I find important that I always come back to is the revelation, I had talking with someone eventually how, when you choose Open source software, you also choose to invest in your local economy, you don't have to send money back to, you know, Redmond in Washington, or wherever HP is based wherever IBM is based, because you get all the tools, and then you pay snowflake, intuitives or you pay whoever it is in Cologne, or you pay whoever it is in London to do the work. And then the money and especially government money, if it's our taxes, it all stays in our own economies, I think it's really empowering. And it probably fits with the mindset of this target group of people, too.
Adrian Zimmermann 11:31
That was the thinking of NGOs and institutions like this, they don't have much money. So they want to invest it really in the thing with with a company near them. It's the best way. I think open source really grew through through those NGOs and institutions.
Jeffrey A. McGuire 11:46
So Snowflake Productions, the three of you started it because you liked snowboarding and you were trying to trick the resorts into paying you to go snowboarding. How big is it?
Adrian Zimmermann 11:55
Now we are like 30 people in Switzerland working in Bern Zurich, mostly we have like affiliates, also in Basel in San Carlos.
Jeffrey A. McGuire 12:04
And if someone came to you now looking for a career in technology, would you point them towards TYPO3? And if you would, how would you tell them to get started?
Adrian Zimmermann 12:15
We are not doing only TYPO3 right now. But everything PHP related, you wouldn't have to be only TYPO3 fixed. We have like three teams, PHP teams, they do two or three, they do Magento they do applications. Individually, it's a good start to start with TYPO3, with all those tutorials to have a very fast result of a nice web page. That's how we do it.
Jeffrey A. McGuire 12:40
Can you compare, I don't know maybe the perspective is learning TYPO3. Now compared to the bad old days of PHP TYPO3's incredibly standards based, right. If someone already knows PHP and is familiar with implementing things based on the PSR standards, they're going to be able to come in and recognize an awful lot of what's going on out of the gate and learn transferable skills to probably
Adrian Zimmermann 13:02
I'm not too deep anymore in that technical base, how TYPO3 comes today. 20 years later, I think it's still a good thing to to dive into it and to go through really the I don't know if you need TypeScript anymore. I don't think so. But of course you have. If you if you still know it, you have advantages.
Jeffrey A. McGuire 13:22
What is the coolest thing you ever built with TYPO3.
Adrian Zimmermann 13:26
One, of course was also when we when we lifted that boarder.ch portal two TYPO3. First it was HTML only. Then we moved it to TYPO3. That was of course for us, because it was the first big TYPO3 website with all those resorts. They huge websites we did for the government, the contents website, and that's that's just massive content. Lots of functions. That's really nice to do. And it never, I mean, it grows, it grows. And now we have to do upgrades and it never stops. And it's still working.
Jeffrey A. McGuire 14:05
Right. That's that's really great. In 2021, digitalized services are more important than ever getting government work done. remotely is more important than ever. TYPO3 has a pretty big presence in government infrastructure, overall, Swiss government, the Quebec government, a lot of municipalities in Holland, right. And a couple of governments in Africa, as we found out in the last couple of years. It's
Adrian Zimmermann 14:32
Yeah, and we want to increase it again in Switzerland. We had we had a lots of websites, governmental websites going on like five years ago, then there was a huge tender from the military section, what the Americans would call the Department of Defense or the defense. Yeah, exactly. Right. They had the tender going on for like everything setting everything new first. First there was like the Department of it. Insert themselves they did tender, which they want to have that the whole base of CMS for the whole government because the IT department gives a base to all those who want to take it from the government's don't have to, but they can. And that base was end of life. So they had to do a new one, they have to buy a new one. And it was a huge tender and some ATM company won it. Here in Switzerland. One month later, the Department of Defense did almost the same tender, and again, the company once and then the
Jeffrey A. McGuire 15:40
Adobe Experience manager for anyone who doesn't know the terrible acronym.
Adrian Zimmermann 15:46
Yeah, so they had like two almost identical projects to the same company with the same system. Some months later, this was seen by the controlling instance of the government, the financial controlling instances, Oh, hey. And, yeah, I have to say that one, one of the projects is like 14 millions. So heavy, and the other one again, like 16 millions. So they spent like 30 millions to build a base CMS where we all know we built a CMS from scratch. 1000s of CMS is Foursquare for. And this was not a very complex thing. It's just based CMS functions. But I don't know what you have to pay for. Towards Adobe, if you want to do governmental stuff. Of course, half of it goes to Adobe, then the financial control institution said, okay, to same projects, same company, we have to make sure that they don't sell the same function twice. So this was on the heart controlling then. And then the Council, the Federal Council on this route, also saw that, and then he decided and that was a really bad decision that from now on, it's not anymore a choice if you have to take the the ATM system then. But you have to so they said if we invest that much money, it's mandatory to take OEM for everything. And so from one day to another, we were out with TYPO3 ...
Jeffrey A. McGuire 17:22
... and no more tenders no more. Oof.
Adrian Zimmermann 17:25
Yeah. So the clients we had in government with with TYPO3 and they were really happy we had four or five big ones, they had to get off TYPO3 within a year and change to am and now we are like five years later I'm fighting also with with a group of Parliament's with a parliamentary group a part of the e.ch we working for us also within government we are we are fighting a lot
Jeffrey A. McGuire 17:55
there. When you're preparing a government tender. What are the accessibility requirements like in Switzerland? And do you how do you find meeting them with TYPO3?
Adrian Zimmermann 18:04
Yeah, we work together with Access for All, it's an institution where you can like, do the certificates about AA, double A and all that stuff. Of course, in tenders, they have they have like those those requirements. Accessibility is always important. But in the end, to be honest, most of the time, it's far too expensive to really put it to like double A or A plus. And often the money is not there anymore to go. Also in this level. So it's always if they want to have it, it's nice to have. But in the end budgets are too low. And they they rather use the money to to set up all the functions
Jeffrey A. McGuire 18:50
they need. Is there is there a law that says it has to be to a certain standard, but nobody actually checks? Or what's the reality there?
Adrian Zimmermann 18:58
No, there's no there's no law. There's just recommendations. There are some of course, there are some governmental institutions which have to fulfill a certain level. But for most of them, it's it's nice to have they don't have to So in the end, since they don't have to they they spend the money elsewhere.
Jeffrey A. McGuire 19:16
Speaking of open source, and I'm super super interested in finding out more about your was it What did you call it parley ch what is the open source lobbying group
Adrian Zimmermann 19:27
Diggi.ch. With snowflake we are like a partner of that group.
Jeffrey A. McGuire 19:34
You and I most recently spoke because I was hosting a Drupal event. Drupal award show and you were on the jury judging Drupal websites. How was that for you? And how do you feel about this inter community sort of activity?
Adrian Zimmermann 19:48
That was really great. It was it was the second time I was in the shewry I was invited which makes me really happy. And it's it's very interesting. Really great projects ...
Jeffrey A. McGuire 20:01
There's a ton of commonalities under the hood. Technically, it's all PHP, it's standards based and so on. And I feel that I know about systems quite well. And I think that they are both good for a lot of things. And I also think that there's so much potential digital business out there that nobody needs to fight about this. Nobody needs to be upset that the other project wins one project and one wins one one wins another I think that's perfectly okay. They're both fully featured CMS is with with great strengths and great people behind them. And I do. I do really love how the communities are maturing to discover things like award shows, or public relations or the shiny stuff that actually gets more customers introduced interested in us over time. I like that a lot. Let me ask you, in the TYPO3 community who do you look for for advice or for perspective, or for you know, the vision of the next thing. Who do you pay attention to in TYPO3?
Adrian Zimmermann 21:01
The guys from the GMB ... Mattes and his team. And also, of course, Benni Mack. Benni Mack is the core guy where I have a very good connection and visions. He's also coming to Switzerland once a year, if possible.
Jeffrey A. McGuire 21:17
I know he was. I know, he was thinking about doing a beer with Benny tour of just like, so as an excuse to go and hang out with more TYPO3 people and promote it like a user group meeting, but but with beers that will be good. What is it that you're looking forward to in the future of TYPO3?
Adrian Zimmermann 21:33
What would really be nice ... I don't know what the plans are there if there are but two, heart usability work over for the back end, which it can be a strategy so that you're always used to it, it looks almost it looks almost the same for 10 or even 20 years. It didn't change too much.
Jeffrey A. McGuire 21:53
So way, the big colored back modules and the workflows, I mean, there is so much good in there.
Adrian Zimmermann 22:02
Yeah, it's always what strategy you want to go. I mean, if you have like something working with 6.2, or even older, he can just go into 10 and work like he's used to of course, that's also an advantage ...
Jeffrey A. McGuire 22:16
... Which is pretty awesome.
Adrian Zimmermann 22:17
I'm not a UX UX guy. But that's also something
Jeffrey A. McGuire 22:21
Do you think it's you think it's time to take a good a good look at it and and see what what could where it could go next?
Adrian Zimmermann 22:27
It's very difficult. You cannot do some really, completely something new. I mean, perhaps find find a way I don't know. That's what I would think it would be very interesting.
Jeffrey A. McGuire 22:41
If you remember the old interface when everything was small and great. And there was a everything on the screen. I think I described it in public as the looking like the control station for a nuclear submarine. I think it's way better than in those days. And of course
Adrian Zimmermann 22:56
it is, of course. It's good, but we want to be great, right?
Jeffrey A. McGuire 23:02
Yeah. So you like the community? What's your favorite thing about it?
Adrian Zimmermann 23:06
I have really found good friends also there. That's what I like the people which I would know if there wouldn't be the community then again, one thing is 33 board which is just great. And which was the first ever event around TYPO3 and it's still there and it's still
Jeffrey A. McGuire 23:26
wait that was the very first conference was this snowboarding event.
Adrian Zimmermann 23:30
Not the conference, but community event event. That was the very first community event around TYPO3 and it's the oldest one and I I had the honor to host it after that Bad G'Stein event which Kasper initiated, I took over for several years and I was just great.
Jeffrey A. McGuire 23:50
Adrian Zimmermann 23:51
And a lso very nice people to what I mentioned in the beginning to to Whistler Canada. So the community and and and the base, the T3Board as a base was was enabling us to go to Whistler Canada to do a special T3 Board in Canada with like, 20 TYPO3 guys. And then, of course, the Canadian guys, like Phil, came also we even did it again last year.
Jeffrey A. McGuire 24:21
Mm hmm. Feel for Katie is someone whose name has come up a couple of times. I want to get to him in a moment. Can you talk about a time that the TYPO3 community helped you?
Adrian Zimmermann 24:31
Yeah, of course. And after that first TYPO3, tour in G'Stein. And we had, of course, personal contact to cost but of course, we had contact to that guy. We could ask him things and stuff and he helped us and of course also young and recording, which was very into the project, one of the first ones. Martinez was also already working with him, I guess back then, but couldn't attend to tour. But then of course he was on the second tour. So I also met him there. And these are great contacts. And they helped a lot, of course. So if you if you have established those contacts to the core, guys, that was that was great. And also Robert blank, he was there at the second tool. And through Robert Lampkin, he
Jeffrey A. McGuire 25:15
met me he have this friend of him in Hamburg. And he did the whole hosting together with Robert I did some ropes config, it was called hosting a hosting interface, we could do all the hosting with those guys. Without those connections, we wouldn't be here, of course, you're reflecting two things. And one of them is all of this open source technology comes from humans and comes from individuals and comes from, I have a moment and I have a need, and I am now I can solve it myself. Because we can share these technologies. Those are incredibly powerful moments for me, and the fact that this actually builds human connection and lets us help each other is is incredible. I guess it's one of the things I love the most about, about this.
Adrian Zimmermann 26:02
This spirit. I remember exactly when I was in Splgen, the second snowboard tour 2003 in Splgen, witzerland, when I was iscussing with Olivier, who was lso at the second tour, and e're standing on the stairs and aving really enthusiastic iscussions, where were we where e want to go with TYPO3, and hat we can do and how we can evelop and how we can work ogether also back then. And hat was great to feel that in ne house one week. Without that uy. We didn't sleep almost we ad sessions whole night. And eah ...
Jeffrey A. McGuire 26:40
It's also interesting to see how many of those names are still around, still doing TYPO3 that says something else about the group as well. Yeah. The other thing that I wanted to point out about your your experience was every question I asked eventually, you come around to and when we were on T3Board, and we were moving on when we were there. That's the big the red.
Adrian Zimmermann 27:04
The red. Yeah, yeah, exactly. It's got the red line. It started with it. It started there.
Jeffrey A. McGuire 27:09
Were there ever any T3 Board moments that became software?
Adrian Zimmermann 27:13
There was those big hunting nights, bug unting nights in, in block , especially where we did an au tion, a buck auction, hoste by the two Danish guys, mostl , Daniel Anson, and Mikha l from wildside. Were all the p rticipants and they would like 30 guys, they're 130 peopl on the mountain in logs, we di an auction about beer. So we bo ght like beer or other stuff for the for the deaths. We could like, do the auction for box p ck 140 how many beers and so th whole night that would be would be a bug fixing. And of cours , also other extensions came ut of those of those commu ity weeks urine coding.
Jeffrey A. McGuire 28:02
I think that TYPO3 isn't well known enough around the world. And I think it's time to spread the word. Again, I think that the system is very professionalized, the release cycles are planned the software is standards based and very compelling in has a lot of great use cases, a real competitor in terms of fully featured enterprise CMS delivering relevant applications today. What do we need to do that? And where should we go?
Adrian Zimmermann 28:35
Yeah, of course, biggest market is North America and we try for a long time now I remember that already. Back in the in the in the first Association Board or active members, there was Mark Stevenson from from us he was working for some weapon power churches, I guess he did. So lots of websites for churches over there. Also, Patrick como was was in there for a long time from from Quebec,
Jeffrey A. McGuire 29:03
still very active.
Adrian Zimmermann 29:05
But it's it's quite, I don't know what it needs to get into that market. Really, because also eo he was over there in San Francisco very, very soon. But I don't know what is the what is the market size for TYPO3 in the US or in the in Canada? Canada is not too bad,
Jeffrey A. McGuire 29:22
right? The Government of Quebec uses TYPO3. And that is because that the government is there. He brought it in early and he's taken great care of them and they're extremely happy and the Quebec Waa are our cultural defenders anyway, and I think they're probably happy to have this thing that's theirs as well. I feel or I've been told, or I suspect that the problems moving on between TYPO3, four and six, shall we say, and having a fork along the way. And all of that really came at an unfortunate time when there was a ton of economic growth in and around open source and a ton of opportunity. And I feel that that probably took A lot of the momentum out especially in the North American effort. I'm not sure it wasn't because it wasn't TYPO3 wasn't right. It was just that the community had a difficult moment. I think that I think that could be part of the answer.
Adrian Zimmermann 30:13
There were some initiatives, which I supported all back then to do a rebranding for for American and North American market, because I think "typo" is not a very good brand for English speaking countries. That was not supported by the big part of the community. But do you think that also has some some influence in the whole story? Or is that completely not important?
Jeffrey A. McGuire 30:40
I think that the the couple decades that we've had of internet have led to an acceptance of weird strange names for everything, because there are so many I have heard I know a lot of people agree with you. I know a lot of people think that I really wonder how much friction that puts in the way to compared to the cost and confusion of rebranding. A 25 year old ecosystem, what one word would you use to describe TYPO3 ... and don't say "snowboard"! community power now in German, to be fair, that would be one word. So we'll let you get away. What's your favorite feature of TYPO3, or your favorite features?
Adrian Zimmermann 31:26
Right now, it's the different device preview.
Jeffrey A. McGuire 31:31
That is pretty cool. Right? In the back end of the CMS, you can preview what your work is going to look like on a multitude of screen sizes and end devices. That's a really good one. Now, if you had the power, what feature would you add to TYPO3 next? It's all in there, right? It's difficult. It's, it's also also SEO stuff. It's all in there. Okay. And what would you take out if you could? What would you remove from it? Nothing. Okay, all right. What is something that you wish people knew about TYPO3, but they don't seem to
Adrian Zimmermann 32:12
The real power of the of the of the clipboard function, which I also didn't know how powerful it is you can do like multi threading, stopover arbeiten and lots of powerful things with the clipboards I'm sure that especially editors don't know about it, have no idea
Jeffrey A. McGuire 32:30
TYPO3 Clipboard, read the documentation for more!
Adrian Zimmermann 32:34
I have now an idea what is missing! This would be very nice if you had marketplace completely integrated in in the TYPO3 backend.
Jeffrey A. McGuire 32:44
Like an e-commerce package? Okay, well that that is a nice bit of homework for someone.
Adrian Zimmermann 32:48
Mattes is, s thinking about it already from the beginning of the GMB. He w s thinking about such an inte rated marketplace. We did some some front end already not inte ration in the backend but we d d the front end for for a mark tplace platform. And at Sund y we should bring it comp etely into the system that will be super nice.
Jeffrey A. McGuire 33:10
Would you like to suggest a guest for us to talk with about TYPO3 PHP open source the world around all of this? Do you have anyone in mind?
Adrian Zimmermann 33:21
Yes, of course. We talked before about the Canadian guys Patrick Gaum nt and and Phil Fekete. Phil. I know both of them. Phil Fek te is the guy from tomorrow. An he works together with Pa rick on the Qubec government I guess. And he was of course on t e on the snowboard tours with u . And he was even and and t at's the other connection. He p ts on the whole world. He was e en with us in Japan Nagano w ere we they also did teesri b ards. Also Thomas lamphere w ll be very interesting. And P il Fekete and Phil came over to Nagano that was when I met im first. At the snowboard tou again, we're at the sno board tour, you see, and and th n, of course, he was in Wh stler, the two times.
Jeffrey A. McGuire 34:12
I had a great conversation with Patrick Gaumont already for the podcast, and he was in his music studio to do the recording. And he's now done that thing music for this thing. So the crazy thing music for this podcast is actually Patrick's music. I saw that I saw that. Thanks so much for taking the time to talk with me. I'm really, it sounds like you and I have some more conversations to have. And, you know, maybe some fun activities coming up, especially when people could get together again, that would be amazing. Thank you so much for taking the time to talk with me. It's been great to catch up like this. And I look forward to talking to you again soon.
Adrian Zimmermann 34:55
Yeah, thank you very much. Thank you.
Jeffrey A. McGuire 34:58
Thanks to the TYPO3 Association for sponsoring this podcast. Thank you b13. And Stephanie Kreuzer for our logo. Merci beaucoup Patrick Gaumont, TYPO3 developer and musician exraordinaire for our theme music. Thanks again to today's guest. If you like what you heard, don't forget to subscribe in the podcast app of your choice and share Application, the TYPO3 Community Podcast with your friends and colleagues. If you didn't like it, please share it with your enemies. You can find show notes, links and more information in our posts on typo3.org. Remember, open source software would not be what it is without you. Thank you all for your contributions.